Area 51 » Culture

157

followers

This proposal is now in the Beta phase — example questions are locked!

59 Example Questions (2 closed)

active newest votes

up vote 15 down vote

added by Marco Leogrande Sep 13 '12 at 7:26

up vote 12 down vote

added by Paola Sep 7 '12 at 18:33

Now that it has 10+ upvotes, I suggest using our limited upvotes for other questions which are below 10 – Midhat Sep 14 '12 at 14:53

@Alex. Considering that most people on this site actively use English and that in English "a nice dress" and "a green dress" are both perfectly correct, I don't think that it is such a nonsensical question. Besides, Italian is not as clearly regulated as English is as far as the position and order of adjectives are concerned. – Paola Sep 14 '12 at 19:18

<comments removed> Please do not use comments to answer these questions. Comments are here to help improve the questions. This proposal is not part of the Q&A site, and the task at hand is to help define a future site. Thank you. – Robert Cartaino Sep 27 '12 at 12:54

Questions about subtle grammar exceptions that most Italians use without even being aware of (as the adjective "bello") are exactly what we need. – Mauro Vanetti Oct 15 '12 at 13:40

up vote 11 down vote

added by idober, edited by WikiSpeedia hang-around Sep 21 '12 at 18:27

up vote 11 down vote

added by apaderno Sep 3 '12 at 15:01

I would say this is not a good fit, as it involves comparison with another language. This requires we have experts of other languages in addition to Italian, which we might not have, and this could result in unanswered questions. – Midhat Sep 13 '12 at 15:41

The site is not for users speaking Italian as first language. – apaderno Sep 14 '12 at 11:42

@kiamlaluno. Isn't it? Then there would be a big shift from what we have in EL&U, where the vast majority of those who actively participate are English mother tongue. Besides, the caption to this proposal states "... teachers [...] of Italian language": would then only foreign teachers of Italian be acceptable? Not to mention "lovers" of Italian... – Paola Sep 15 '12 at 22:44

@Paola I meant "The site is not just for users speaking Italian as first language." It seems I missed just in that comment. – apaderno Sep 15 '12 at 22:48

up vote 11 down vote

added by Lucius Sep 4 '12 at 15:46

maybe motivating your downvotes would be more constructive – Lucius Sep 12 '12 at 8:18

This is a question that can be answered with a dictionary; if the question would be why some words contains cie that is pronounced as ce, that would be a better question. – apaderno Sep 14 '12 at 11:40

@kiamlaluno. I see your point and I would be inclined to agree with you if it weren't for the very wide use of wrongly spelt words that you can find in texts written by natives. Just two examples: before becoming BancaIntesa, Cariplo used to be "Cassa di Risparmio delle Provincie Lombarde"; and the shops called Nara sold "camice" instead of "camicie" for years. – Paola Sep 14 '12 at 19:36

The fact that some dictionaries accept spellings that are considered as incorrect, doesn't mean they are not. It is simply due to the fact that many incorrect forms have now become of wide use. As the website of Accademia della Crusca states: "Oltre a indicarvi la forma giusta, [il vocabolario] avverte che, accanto ai plurali considerati corretti, anche forme come ciliege, valige, e provincie sono ormai usate e largamente accettate." – Lucius Sep 15 '12 at 23:52

@Paola @kiamlaluno ok, I edited the question. It's a bit too long, maybe, but I tried to make it as clear as possible. Let me know what you think of this version. (and please, don't answer me that the plural is formed according to the color of the fruit! ;-) ) – Lucius Sep 16 '12 at 18:17

show 8 more improvement suggestions

up vote 11 down vote

added by Maverik Oct 4 '12 at 19:27

IMO, A good answer will tell the tu=informal and lei=formal thing, but not veer into which situations are formal and which are informal – Midhat Oct 17 '12 at 18:59

up vote 10 down vote

added by mac389 Aug 22 '12 at 4:35

This is kinda localized. "Ne" is used only somewhere in Italy and it's not considered part of the Italian dictionary. – Jefffrey Oct 14 '12 at 17:26

All the lessons I have seen have covered 'ne' and all my Italian friends use it, so appears to be common enough to me... – Groky Oct 16 '12 at 9:47

@Jeffrey appena lo conobbe, ne divenne amico, or ne parlano come di una persona in gamba are Italian sentences. Ne is reported in Italian dictionaries. – apaderno Nov 12 '12 at 13:34

Yeah sorry, stupidly I've thought of another meaning of the world "ne". In Toscana (I believe but not sure) "ne" is used at the end of a phrase and has the meaning of "is that true?" as a rethorical question. I don't know why haven't I thought of the most common "neither" meaning. – Jefffrey Nov 14 '12 at 0:22

@Jeffrey. I may be mistaken, but I think the usage you are referring to is to be found in Piedmont, not in Tuscany. – Paola Nov 22 '12 at 22:43

show 1 more improvement suggestion

up vote 10 down vote

added by Paolo Moretti Aug 24 '12 at 18:55

Similar to the English Language and Usage SE, should questions that can be answered by using general reference resources be allowed? – mac389 Sep 2 '12 at 17:33

A dictionary will never tell you that, for example, Italians generally avoid saying fra frati, and tra trappole. – apaderno Sep 3 '12 at 15:20

Traduzione: qual e' la differenza tra "tra" e "fra" – Midhat Sep 14 '12 at 9:55

@Midhat Is there a reason for which you choose "tra" instead of "fra" in your translation (i.e.: "qual'è la differenza fra "tra" e "fra")? – Carlo Alterego Sep 15 '12 at 14:17

@Carlo_R. Please be extra careful when you type something in this section, we mother tongue speakers should set the example and spelling mistakes should not be present in our posts ("qual è...") ;-) – Paola Sep 15 '12 at 22:36

show 3 more improvement suggestions

up vote 10 down vote

added by Lucius Aug 30 '12 at 10:48

up vote 10 down vote

added by Paolo Moretti Sep 2 '12 at 19:12

again a dictionary question. looking up "di" will show the answer – Midhat Sep 13 '12 at 15:49

It could be a question that can be answered with a dictionary, but the answer is not as immediate as it could seem. – apaderno Sep 14 '12 at 11:34

I highly doubt that looking up the single words will provide even a fitting translation of any of the two sentences up there (though maybe the first one can be managed). – Alex Sep 14 '12 at 14:54

I would't think to look in the dictionary under "di" for an answer to this question, and my dictionary is very well-worn. This question is more about usage than about word definition. – BearBearBear Sep 14 '12 at 16:16

I agree with @kiamlaluno on this one: this question is interesting because the use of "di" is not so simple as it seem. – Carlo Alterego Sep 15 '12 at 8:09

up vote 10 down vote

added by apaderno Sep 3 '12 at 15:02

up vote 10 down vote

added by apaderno Sep 3 '12 at 15:06

Since you are a native of Italian language, could you provide some imaginable cases where this use would be possible in our language. I'm not able to think of one. – Carlo Alterego Sep 15 '12 at 10:33

Think of pensiamoci. – apaderno Sep 15 '12 at 14:47

@kiamlaluno. I checked the meaning of "clitic" in OED and I'm under the impression that the term indicates something different from your example. The final "ci" means "a ciò" and it could be used before the verb as well ("noi CI pensiamo", for example). It has a meaning independently of the verbs it is normally found with. Does it still count as a clitic? – Paola Sep 15 '12 at 22:54

@Paola Mi in parlami is a clitic, and so is stra in strapieno. Also articles are considered clitics. – apaderno Sep 15 '12 at 23:04

Well then, I guess I should check an Italian grammar book more carefully, or more often. Surely it's a long time since I last studied Italian grammar and I guess I'm better at English rules and exceptions than at Italian ones now... – Paola Sep 16 '12 at 8:42

show 1 more improvement suggestion

up vote 10 down vote

added by Paola Sep 7 '12 at 18:43

up vote 10 down vote

added by Marco Leogrande, edited by WikiSpeedia hang-around Sep 21 '12 at 18:31

@Midhat the comparison is only an example, to make the question clear. I'm confident that the question can be answered even without it. – Marco Leogrande Sep 13 '12 at 17:18

@Marco Lets get more input from the community. I ave mae a similar comment on the gerund comparison question by @kiamlaluno – Midhat Sep 13 '12 at 17:43

@Midhat sure, that's what votes are for :) I see your point, I was trying to suggest a steering in the question if the community does not like it as it is now. – Marco Leogrande Sep 13 '12 at 20:22

up vote 10 down vote

added by Marco Leogrande Sep 12 '12 at 6:32

Yes it definitely should. – Jefffrey Nov 14 '12 at 0:23

up vote 10 down vote

added by Giorgio Sep 12 '12 at 18:39

up vote 10 down vote

added by Paola Sep 13 '12 at 22:45

up vote 10 down vote

added by Paolo Moretti Sep 14 '12 at 10:05

up vote 10 down vote

added by Alex, edited by WikiSpeedia hang-around Sep 21 '12 at 18:31

	@Alex At least to me, it is unclear what the question is here. – Carlo Alterego Sep 15 '12 at 8:17
	@Alex to me as well.. could you please rephrase your question? – Lucius Sep 15 '12 at 12:28
	I think this question is asking for a translation of "it". as in "I like this pen. It is made of gold" – Midhat Sep 15 '12 at 20:53
	@Midhat Ok, it is clear now. This problem is not easy to analyze. In Italian language, differently from English, "pen" is of feminine gender. In facts, in Italian, not only do people have a gender (masculine or feminine), but objects do as well. Considering that "pen" is feminine, you have to write "Mi piace questa penna. Essa è fatta di oro" or "Mi piace questa penna, è fatta di oro" or "Mi piace questa penna, è di oro" or "Mi piace questa penna, è d'oro". I prefer the latter translation. However, if you want to use the subject pronoun, you have necessarily to use Essa in your case. – Carlo Alterego Sep 16 '12 at 10:23
	You're correct, the question would be how to translate "it" properly. Should I edit the question to clarify, leave it as is... ? @Carlo_R: watch out, "di oro" is wrong (the 'i' should be dropped). – Alex Sep 17 '12 at 7:15

show 2 more improvement suggestions

up vote 10 down vote

added by Alex, edited by WikiSpeedia hang-around Sep 21 '12 at 18:32

Trad: perchè "un altro" è giusto e "uno altro" è sbagliato ? – Alex Sep 14 '12 at 15:27

this looks like an ok question. Why the downvote – Midhat Sep 14 '12 at 16:49

@Midhat I'm not the downvoter, but, as it stands, this question is too basic; in my opinion, it would be better this way: "Why is "un'altra" correct but "un altra" is not". – Carlo Alterego Sep 15 '12 at 15:46

Or else, "why is "un altro" correct, but "un'altro" is not"? (this error is more common) – Lucius Sep 15 '12 at 21:54

I think the question is perfectly fine. The rules about using un, or uno are not that simple. It could be answered looking on a dictionary, but it's not a case of black, or white. – apaderno Sep 15 '12 at 23:50

show 3 more improvement suggestions

up vote 10 down vote

added by Carlo Alterego, edited by WikiSpeedia hang-around Sep 21 '12 at 18:33

	Of course, into the sentence "i 'Danti' non nascono tutti i giorni" the word 'Danti' is referred to Dante Alighieri, the major Italian poet of the Middle Ages. – Carlo Alterego Sep 15 '12 at 20:28
	Interesting kind of question because the answer is nuanced. – Mauro Vanetti Oct 15 '12 at 13:37

up vote 10 down vote

added by Carlo Alterego Sep 15 '12 at 10:17

up vote 10 down vote

added by Carlo Alterego Sep 15 '12 at 14:21

up vote 10 down vote

added by Alex, edited by WikiSpeedia hang-around Sep 21 '12 at 18:33

up vote 10 down vote

added by Kostya Sep 17 '12 at 14:30

A question and not easy to find it in a dictionary or WR. One can look up words, but then needs to understand the structure, compare it to English and know the understood subject. My answer: scusi is more polite because a formal "you" is understood: scusi Lei..; mi scusi Lei...; on the contrary, scusa implies an informal you: scusa tu... A "me" can be added to both: mi scusi (Lei)...; scusami (tu)... Scusare is the verb for to excuse/forgive. In English you say: excuse/forgive me or just: sorry/pardon, no formal/informal diff. (io) mi scuso=I'm sorry, (I) myself excuse, scusarsi=to excuse o.s. – Antonio Bonifati Sep 18 '12 at 8:56

It's definitely a complex question, with a lot of debating potential. I'd for example point out that "mi scusi lei" is indeed formal, but is absolutely not polite: you're ordering others to pay attention to you right now. – Alex Sep 18 '12 at 9:46

The question could generate some debate, but the answer to the question in itself is quite straightforward: 'scusa' is informal, 'scusi' is formal, therefore is more polite. @Alex "mi scusi lei" uses indeed imperativo (just like "mi scusi"), but is mostly used as a courtesy form of reply to "mi scusi" when asking something. (e.g.: «mi scusi» «no, mi scusi Lei») – Lucius Sep 18 '12 at 11:22

@Lucius Actually, 'scusa' can be formal ("le chiedo scusa"), and 'scusi' can be informal ("Mario, è meglio che ti scusi"). Context matters ! Your "Mi scusi lei" examle makes it even more clear: if you say it by itself, it's imperative and rude, if you blend it in a sentence it magically becomes polite. – Alex Sep 18 '12 at 11:56

@Alex I see your point. Maybe @Kostya should specify better the context of his question – Lucius Sep 18 '12 at 16:01

show 1 more improvement suggestion

up vote 10 down vote

added by Lucius Sep 17 '12 at 15:56

Looking up "be supposed to" on a dictionary can (and does) provide the answer to this. It also might not be a good fir since it involves comparison with another language. – Alex Sep 18 '12 at 7:48

@Alex unfortunately, no. Any dictionary will propose you a list of possible translations, that fail to match the request: to convey both expectation and obligation. Moreover, since this site will be used mostly by non natives, I suppose that a good part of the questions will ask how to render a particular expression from their own language in Italian. We don't need to be experts in every possible foreign language, as long as the OP explains what he/she wants to render in Italian – Lucius Sep 18 '12 at 9:06

up vote 10 down vote

added by d11wtq Sep 18 '12 at 2:51

Could you provide an example ? – Alex Sep 18 '12 at 7:46

I like this question! unfortunately, I have run out of upvotes.. shucks! – Lucius Sep 18 '12 at 8:36

a possible example could be: a) ho saputo che sei stato in vacanza in Australia b) penso che sia ora di andare – Lucius Sep 21 '12 at 22:54

up vote 10 down vote

added by Midhat, edited by WikiSpeedia hang-around Sep 21 '12 at 18:35

"controllo della temperatura" points to a thermometer or thermostat? – Midhat Sep 18 '12 at 13:36

In English, we have the verbs "control" and "check". Both are translated as controllare – Midhat Sep 18 '12 at 13:37

You're right, however "check" could also be rendered as "verificare", thus eliminating all ambiguity. – Paola Sep 18 '12 at 17:17

this is correct, but I have never seen verificare used for check. Its alwars controllare. for example, at the airport, there is controllo di passaporti. Anyway we leave it until the site launches – Midhat Sep 18 '12 at 19:56

A thermostat is the mechanism in your home with which you set the air conditioner or furnace to come on at a certain temperature. It has a control panel to change the settings. A thermometer tells you what the temperature is. As far as I concern, I prefer "controllare"; for example "Paola, controlla la temperatura! E' proprio freddo ora." But, sometimes "verificare" is need; for example "Paola, verifica che la temperatura non sia troppo alta." Strictly speaking, "verificare" implies a comparison, while "controllare" does not. @Midhat – Carlo Alterego Sep 18 '12 at 21:10

show 1 more improvement suggestion

up vote 10 down vote

added by Maverik Sep 19 '12 at 14:32

up vote 10 down vote

added by Agos Sep 28 '12 at 8:39

up vote 10 down vote

added by Maverik Oct 4 '12 at 19:22

up vote 10 down vote

added by Mauro Vanetti Oct 15 '12 at 13:49

	Good question. I think there is a need to tell english mothertongue speakers that many terms that are derogatory/offensive in their language (like "negro" or "bastard") are (or can be) perfectly OK in italian. Our "taste" for offence is totally different. – AlexBottoni Nov 20 '12 at 8:43
	"Negro" nowadays is derogatory in Italian too. In old books and songs it can appears because sensibility is changed in the last decades. Since Pavese died in 1950, then "negro" is ok, but only in an historical sense. – chirale Dec 10 '12 at 22:16

up vote 10 down vote

added by Mauro Vanetti Oct 15 '12 at 13:54

up vote 10 down vote

added by Groky Oct 16 '12 at 7:22

up vote 10 down vote

added by Paola Oct 25 '12 at 17:25

Good question, answering it would require references to the fact that the -i plural forms actually exist and are correct for both terms. – Alex Nov 14 '12 at 8:24

up vote 10 down vote

added by Midhat Nov 28 '12 at 19:53

up vote 10 down vote

added by astabada Dec 7 '12 at 10:07

up vote 9 down vote

added by Matteo Piotto, edited by RegDwight Sep 24 '12 at 19:54

" What does ..." – Lucius Sep 12 '12 at 20:28

It means that you or someone else always maintain a vice/sin/attitude although time pass, thing changes, people become mad at you…"No matter what you're always the same". The wolf loses the fur but is always ready to eat a sheep. – microspino Sep 18 '12 at 22:48

@microspino Comments here are not for answering the example question; they are for suggesting how to make the question a better question, or for saying that it is not a good example question.. – apaderno Sep 18 '12 at 23:51

up vote 9 down vote

added by Agos, edited by WikiSpeedia hang-around Sep 21 '12 at 18:35

In my opinion, the question is perfectly fine; but only educated Italians can understand these differences. – Carlo Alterego Sep 19 '12 at 12:59

I like the point you are making because I'm under the impression that too many people do not care for the correct accent of words, leaving the distinction to context. However, Italian does not request the usage of accents of this kind in writing (actually, I think it wouldn't be acceptable to WRITE them in a normal text, either handwritten or typed), so the difference would be in pronunciation only, and for this reason I think that the question would not fit our format. – Paola Sep 21 '12 at 22:15

@Paola, the question is exactly meant to clarify why they're not always present; dictionaries present them, and a learner might be confused why they are not always written. – Agos Sep 28 '12 at 8:34

@Paola It is not true. Think of sì. – apaderno Oct 17 '12 at 11:39

@kiamlaluno. Come on, it's obvious that I was referring to non monosyllabic words! You can't claim that people need stresses to distinguish between "àncora" and "ancòra", "pèsca" and "pésca", nor that you are requested to write stresses as you need to do in French or Spanish. Monosyllabic terms are something else. – Paola Oct 17 '12 at 17:45

show 1 more improvement suggestion

up vote 9 down vote

added by Midhat Oct 5 '12 at 9:19

	I feel that this question could help some more clarification or some examples. Apart that, it is a good question! – Lucius Nov 1 '12 at 8:56
	Ok, now it's much better! – Lucius Nov 27 '12 at 9:14